Tanking Discussion

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Tanking Discussion

Post  Tom G on Mon Feb 23, 2015 2:26 am

Discussion: How does this league feel about tanking games to improve draft position? I know some see it as a viable strategy, while others don't care for it so much.

    My personal opinion as a manager is that it has no place in this league. I define tanking as starting something other than the lineup you think gives you the best chance to win. I am personally just fine with selling off all of your assets because you don't think you have a chance this year, in my mind, that's rebuilding. But even the 76ers start the lineup that gives them the best chance to win every night, even if that lineup is terrible. I also am not speaking to questionable lineup decisions, for the same reason the league does not vote to veto (say that 3 times fast), this is your team, and you have quite a bit of leeway in terms of managerial decisions. In fact, if there's even the slightest semblance of an argument to be made for a guy starting for you, roll with it, that's good enough. Hell, even one guy starting that looks like a "lose on purpose" type decision is probably ok with me, albeit suspicious. All that being said, a starting lineup full of backups and IR players just doesn't sit right with me.
    You may think you are "doing what's best for your team," but this is the sort of move that doesn't occur in a vacuum. That victory you just gifted your opponent could make the difference between a 3rd completely different team being in or out of the playoffs. It's tough to pick your optimal lineup, there are elements of both luck and skill. There is no skill to tanking, I don't see it as a strategy, because there's no thought behind it.
    My last argument against this is that I think if we as a league are ok with this, we start down a slippery slope. What's to stop 3 or 4 teams deciding they are out of contention by week 8 and just trying to out-tank each other? I think we all do a pretty good job of researching players and staying active in the offseason, so that during the season the cards can fall where they may. I would hate to be in the position of  the 3rd team mentioned above, having a playoff spot completely taken out of my hands.

I'm re-reading this before I post, and realize it comes on pretty strong. To be clear, as a commish, I'm open to hearing points differing from my own, in fact I'd rather have 8 guys strongly disagree with me then 2 agree and 1 not.

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Re: Tanking Discussion

Post  joshm on Mon Feb 23, 2015 8:07 pm

If you tank, everyone in the league gets to nut-shot you any time they wish, as often as they would like, until the following season starts.

~BOOM~ *mic drop*

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Re: Tanking Discussion

Post  Dan U on Thu Feb 26, 2015 9:34 pm

I accidently tank a lot
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Re: Tanking Discussion

Post  Cat M on Fri Feb 27, 2015 6:50 am

whether you feel for or against tanking we should have a rule that states no team can start a player that is on IR or suspended by the nfl. outside of that I have zero issue with a team starting a lineup of all backups and scrubs. My thought is that as this transition to a money league that we are all doing what is in the best interest of our team to make the playoffs and win as much dough as we can while having fun. I view tanking as doing the best option for my team to get players that can make me a winner in a future year. With that view I believe we all know the risks involved on throwing a season let alone money away this year for the future years potential. If its not clear I am for it as this is an individual sport and we should be as selfish as we want to be. How it affects another team is just part of strategy and how you need to plan to defend it.

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Re: Tanking Discussion

Post  joshm on Fri Feb 27, 2015 9:23 am

Can we all just nut-shot Cat now?

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Re: Tanking Discussion

Post  Guest on Sat Feb 28, 2015 5:41 pm

I agree to nut-shot Cat. Smile

But seriously, if everyone (including you Josh) just paid in, this might be more competitive and less about tanking in general. Who wants to tank in a money-league? Those who do, should have some penalties. A pick being taken away, a cap penalty, etc... Like Josh said, a one man questionable move doesn't make sense to penalize, but when you have multiple players who are #3RBs and players on IR starting, it seems unfair. In any professional sports league, tanking is condoned and if proven, those teams are penalized. We should have the same respect. I recall last year playing two teams who had maybe 1 or 2 starters against me and it can completely shift the playoff picture. I think that is unfair to those who have worked hard all year. Everyone should compete to win every game regardless of where your place in the standings is.

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Re: Tanking Discussion

Post  Dan U on Sat Feb 28, 2015 8:36 pm

DRAFT LOTTERY lol
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Re: Tanking Discussion

Post  Tom G on Sat Feb 28, 2015 8:38 pm

If yall thought the NBA was rigged, just wait till our lottery Twisted Evil

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Re: Tanking Discussion

Post  Dan U on Sat Feb 28, 2015 8:46 pm

I will change my name to either the Knicks or Cavs....
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Re: Tanking Discussion

Post  Cat M on Sun Mar 01, 2015 4:15 am

so i guess im in the minority with my view..but i do think we should make a rule saying no IR or suspended players are in our starting lineups

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Re: Tanking Discussion

Post  Tom G on Mon Mar 09, 2015 9:54 pm

Bump... I want more participation

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Re: Tanking Discussion

Post  Dan U on Mon Mar 09, 2015 10:54 pm

I would definitely say that no matter what we decided any final rule in this area would have to have a vote from the league to confirm if it was in fact legit tanking. Even if it was just a simple rule like "you can not start a player on the IR or a player that is suspended". even in that easily defined area there is the potential for situations where someone may break the rule but for a legit reason everyone can understand.
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Re: Tanking Discussion

Post  Tom G on Tue Mar 10, 2015 1:09 am

Here is my suggestion for a tanking amendment to our league constitution. This is more or less just my opinion that's been ran by Daniel Michael Goodell already (open for discussion of course):

Tanking will be defined as the act of attempting to purposely lose a regular season game (regardless of reason), by starting a lineup designed to fail by nature of being grossly worse than the optimal lineup an owner could have started with the players they have available to them. This can include obvious attempts such as starting a player on IR or leaving an open space in the starting lineup, and more subtle attempts, such as starting obvious NFL backup(s). In the case of an owner starting an injured player and taking zero points for the week, the specific situation will be reviewed (including when it became clear that the player would be Out for the week - starting a player ruled Out on Wednesday is far less acceptable than starting a player ruled out on Saturday, but still more acceptable than starting a player out for multiple weeks). It is understandable that owners will make poor decisions, and with 40 man rosters, starting the absolute optimal lineup is nearly impossible. Owners are expected to choose a lineup that they feel will give them the best chance to win in the current week, and the current week only.
Two major situations that will be considered tanking: Losing to manipulate draft position and losing in order to manipulate playoff position. A situation that will not be considered tanking is trading major assets away with an eye towards improving in future years. This would be labeled rebuilding, and as long as owners are not in obvious collusion, trades should never be reversed.
If an owner starts a player on IR or on a bye, it will be considered tanking IF the owner has an alternative on the roster. For example, if Owner J signs 3 D/ST in the offseason before the schedule is released, and all have byes during the same week, the owner will not have a tanking charge brought for failing to start a legal D/ST. However, purposely releasing a viable alternative in order to leave yourself with no viable alternatives will be considered tanking. To summarize, an owner will not be compelled to make a tansaction in order to avoid being accused of tanking, but to avoid gray areas and those who would 'shoot angles,' dropping viable players for the sole purpose of leaving yourself with none for a given week will be considered tanking.
The issue of enforcement can often leave much room for interpretation, as the line between "terrible lineup decision" and "tanking" can mean different things to different owners. Any hard and fast rule will almost always have an exception (such as leaving a starting spot open after benching a Monday Night Football player, with a small lead and no one left to play on your opponent's team - in this case you are doing your best to win the week, and giving up potential tiebreaker points in the process). Because of the highly subjective nature of this offense, a league-wide vote will be required before any consequences will be levied. The process will be as follows: Either commish can bring tanking "charges" against an individual by 5pm Tuesday for the previous week. An owner wishing to bring charges against a commish should do so, with their argument, by 5pm Wednesday. This should be made in writing in a public area (ESPN message board and/or Facebook), and the plaintiff should nut-up and notify the defendant themselves before the deadline. If an owner wants to bring charges against another owner, they should consult either commish, only one needs to approve the charges. If neither approves, you're probably being way too nitpicky. A commish should approve a charge if there is a reasonable argument that an owner tanked, but this does not guarantee said commish will vote guilty. The defendant owner should be given reasonable time to defend their decisions (also in writing, in a public area). Reasonable time will be considered noon on Sunday. After that deadline passes, the league will vote on whether the lineup was started with the intention of purposely losing the game. The commishes will be responsible for conducting the vote (contacting managers via any means necessary to ensure a large portion of the league votes). The plaintiff commish and defendant owner will abstain from the vote (assuming their votes will cancel each other out anyway), and the spare commish should abstain from voting except in cases of a tie. The vote will conclude at 5pm Tuesday whether the entire league has participated or not, though voting is strongly encouraged, and active abstaining would be preferred to refusing to reply. If the owner or commish is found guilty of tanking, the previous week will be remedied by a commish manually changing the offending owner's lineup to the absolute optimal lineup, and the standings will be manually updated to reflect these changes. Should an issue occur near the trade deadline, or the start of the playoffs, the commishes will do their best to expedite the process, as a manual update of the standings may affect 3rd party owner decisions. Furthermore, the offending owner will forfeit their earliest 1st round pick the following year, or a 1st round pick the year after (if the owner has more than one, their own pick will be forfeited, if they don't possess their own but still possess more than one, the commish(es) will collaborate to decide which pick is forfeited). Finally, there will be a 2 strikes and you're out policy. 1st strike means losing the pick, 2nd strike you're out of the league. If a manager is removed from the league due to tanking, the commishes will use their best judgement as to whether the previously forfeited 1st round draft pick should be returned to the new owner.


Whew I addressed every loophole I could

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Re: Tanking Discussion

Post  Dan U on Thu Mar 12, 2015 7:59 pm

I say we move that rule, or a slightly edited if necessary version of it, to vote.
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